Grace Upon Grace: What Real Culture Change Inside Prisons Actually Requires

The Pull Up Podcast | Season 1, Episode 11 — Season Finale

What does it actually take to change the culture of a prison?

Not on paper. Not in a grant proposal. Inside the walls — between officers who are burned out and residents who have every reason not to trust the system — what does real change look like?

In the Season 1 finale of The Pull Up Podcast, host Bo Cornelius sits down with Jonathan Irons and two senior leaders from the Missouri Department of Corrections: Myles Strid, Director of Adult Institutions, and Earl Dye, Deputy Division Director. Together, they cover the messy, incremental, deeply relational work of transforming prison culture from the inside out.

This conversation is the kind you don't hear often — two of the most senior corrections leaders in Missouri, sitting inside a housing unit, talking openly about trust, failure, burnout, and grace.

You Can't Lead Culture Change Without Taking Care of Your Staff First

One of the most direct things Myles Strid said in this episode: you can't ask officers to show up differently if they're running on empty.

"You can't have this officer that's been with us 15 years working mandatory overtime seven days a week and expect them to want to do something differently."

Staffing shortages and mandatory overtime aren't just operational problems — they're culture problems. When officers are exhausted and under-resourced, asking them to build trust with residents isn't just hard. It's unfair.

Strid's point: culture change has to start with genuine investment in staff. That means recruiting, support systems, and making sure officers feel valued before asking them to lead differently.

The job market doesn't make this easier. As Strid put it, a corrections officer can go get a similar-paying job almost anywhere right now — and work far less hard for it. The people who stay are there because they care. Leaders have a responsibility to honor that.

Trust Is Not a Bank Account

Bo framed one of the episode's most important ideas this way: trust in a correctional environment isn't a balance you build over time and draw from. It's a water balloon. The moment it breaks, it's gone.

That's why the how of culture change matters as much as the what. You can't push so hard that you trigger the old labels — "That's just another program. We've seen this before." The moment something gets categorized as a failed initiative, it becomes a permission slip to stay exactly where things are.

The antidote isn't caution. It's relationship.

"Good leaders are gonna — you don't have to trust 1,800 offenders, but you can trust 30. And that's what happened here. And 30 changed 1,800."

That's the GLA model in a sentence. You don't transform an institution by reaching everyone at once. You start with the people who are ready — on both sides of the line — and let that work spread.

The Risk Residents Take When They Step Into Leadership

Jonathan Irons brought a perspective in this episode that doesn't get said enough.

When incarcerated people step into leadership programs, take ownership of culture change, and build visible relationships with staff — they're taking a real risk. In prison culture, collaboration with staff can mean being called a rat. If the program gets shut down, they're the ones left holding the consequences.

"People coming into a prison are already at a deficit. The one thing you don't want to do is continue to create an environment that extracts humanity out of them."

Irons pushed the leaders on this directly: what do you say to residents who are afraid to cross that line? Who've watched programs come and go? Who know that change has enemies, and that those enemies eventually gain power?

Strid's answer was honest: risk is real, and it can't be promised away. But some years of something good are worth the effort — and that requires faith.

Grace Is Not the Opposite of Accountability

One of the most memorable moments in this episode came from a story Earl Dye told — about an inmate in the segregation unit who wouldn't return his food tray. Myles Strid had been trying to talk him down for 45 minutes. Dye walked in, out of uniform, and got the tray back in 10 seconds.

What did he say? "I showed him some grace. I said, we just need to end this so you can get on with your day."

That's not softness. That's skill.

Irons expanded on it: almost every hard case inside has that one staff member who can talk them off the ledge — because they're calm, they're consistent, and they've built rapport. Grace and accountability aren't in tension. They're the same tool used well.

Bo put it this way: bad behavior is often an unskilled expression of an unmet need. That framing doesn't excuse it. But it changes how you respond to it — and that response is where culture either shifts or calcifies.

Normalization Changes the Narrative — Inside and Outside the Walls

Strid introduced the concept of normalization as a long-term strategy that serves everyone.

The idea: if men and women leave prison having only ever lived in environments that look, feel, and function like the worst version of an institution, communities will continue to fear them — and they'll continue to struggle after release.

"If you want to be successful at getting men and women back out into the community, you've got to change the way the community views prison."

That's not an argument for luxury or leniency. It's an argument for humanity. People who've had access to mental health support, programming, normal living environments, and real relationships are better prepared for reentry. Communities that understand what's actually happening inside prisons are more likely to welcome people back.

Jonathan Irons pointed to Puppies for Parole as a perfect example — a program people outside had heard of and got excited about, because it was a story of redemption and purpose that cut through the fear narrative.

The Missouri DOC is actively working to shift that public story. As Strid noted, the Missouri quilting program hit Netflix's Top 10 — not because it was new, but because someone finally put it in front of the world.

Change Is Incremental. Small Wins Matter More Than Perfection.

Both Strid and Irons circled back to this again and again: real change doesn't happen fast, and impatience destroys more programs than opposition does.

Strid gave shout-outs to the facilities leading the way — Charleston Correctional Center's Enhanced Honor Wing, Bowling Green's Dynamo program, Women's Eastern Reception and Diagnostic Correctional Center, Moberly and Farmington's Missouri Prison Transformation Project wings. South Central is coming next.

None of these happened overnight. And none of them are perfect. But they're real, and they're growing.

"You've just got to have some faith. You look for those wins and the ways to make positive change — every single day."

That's what leadership inside a prison actually looks like.

What's Next for The Pull Up

Season 1 wraps here — but Season 2 is in motion. Bo and the team are in conversations with facilities in New Mexico, Texas, Florida, and Virginia for on-location recordings.

Two new podcasts are also in development: Reclaim Inside, featuring returning guests from Episode 7, and a dedicated GLA podcast focused on servant leadership and how it transforms institutional culture.

Stay tuned.

The Pull Up Podcast is produced in partnership with Our Daily Bread Ministries and Jefferson City Correctional Center, with production support from Golden Eagle Creative. If you know someone who exemplifies leadership and positive influence inside prison, reach out — we might pull up on you.